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Carly Fiorina on sexual harassment claims rocking Washington

It Is A rush transcript from “Fox News Sunday,” November 26, 2017. This Reproduction might not be in its final Type and is also up to date.

CHRIS WALLACE, “FOX Information SUNDAY” HOST: I’m Chris Wallace.

New sexual harassment claims shake Congress and the media.


WALLACE: Another apology from Democratic Senator Al Franken; calls for an ethics investigation into Congressman John Conyers.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE US: I Simply heard about Conyers two minutes ago. As Far As Franken is worried, he will have to speak for himself.

WALLACE: The president’s safety of Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore.

TRUMP: I Will tell you one thing evidently, we do not want a liberal PARTICULAR PERSON in there, a Democrat.

WALLACE: Plus, the firing of veteran newsman Charlie Rose. We’ll talk about the fallout with Carly Fiorina, formal former head of Hewlett-Packard who ran for president in 2016.

Then, Congress races to avoid a govt shutdown, as tax reform heads to the Senate floor.

SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE House PRESS SECRETARY: Frankly, I don’t know why Democrats wouldn’t reinforce tax cuts for the center class.

WALLACE: We’ll SMASH down possibilities for Both with Senator John Thune, the quantity three Republican in the Senate.

Plus, Michael Flynn’s legal professionals have cut ties with the Trump prison group in the Russia probe. We’ll ask our Sunday panel what that implies for the different SUGGESTIONS’s investigation.

All at this time on “Fox Information Sunday.”


WALLACE: Hiya again, and satisfied holiday weekend from Fox Information in Washington.

We Start with breaking Information. The dying toll continues to upward thrust after militants attacked a mosque in Egypt all the way through Friday prayers. Three Hundred five Individuals, together with 27 kids are lifeless, after militants spark off an explosion in the mosque, then gunned down worshipers as they fled. No group has claimed responsibility.

In The Meantime, Right Here in Washington, President Trump meets with congressional leaders Tuesday to push for tax reform and take a look at to steer clear of a executive shutdown in not up to two weeks. However The large story is a series of sexual harassment claims rocking Capitol Hill and past.

Chief congressional correspondent Mike Emanuel begins us off.


MIKE EMANUEL, FOX Information CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: After 4 girl got here forward accusing Minnesota Senator Al Franken of sexual misconduct, together with the grabbing the bottoms of several of them, Franken came up with an apology on Thanksgiving evening.

Quote: I’ve made some Ladies really feel badly, and for that i am so sorry, And I need to make sure that never occurs again.

The longest-serving member of Congress, Michigan Democrat John Conyers, has been accused of rubbing and touching former staffers, and he admitted $27,000 settlement to at least one staffer. An legal professional for Conyers stated, quote: Congressman Conyers has no plans to resign.

But a female Home Democrat and The Detroit Free Press said it’s time for him to move.

REP. KATHLEEN RICE, D-THE BIG APPLE: Sufficient is Enough. At this level, what I Am voicing publicly is what Every single personal citizen is saying throughout The Us.

EMANUEL: Then There May Be the case of Alabama Republican Senate candidate Roy Moore who has been accused of inappropriate conduct with teenage girls.

President Trump defended Moore, noting his denial.

TRUMP: Let me Just tell you: Roy Moore denies it, That’s all I Will say. He denies it. And, through the best way, he completely denies it.

EMANUEL: Charlie Rose, a powerful newsman who has covered his share of politics, lost Both his CBS and PBS positions quickly after revelations of inappropriate conduct with young staffers.

NORAH O’DONNELL, CBS News: Let me be very clear. There’s No excuse for this alleged conduct. It’s systematic and pervasive.

EMANUEL: Texas Congressman Joe Barton had a scandal of his PERSONAL this week when a former female lover launched a naked photograph of him on social media. Barton says he has asked the U.S. capitol police to analyze — Chris.


WALLACE: Mike, Thanks.

Becoming A Member Of me now, former CEO of Hewlett-Packard, Carly Fiorina, who ran for president closing yr.

Carly, welcome again to FOX News SUNDAY.


WALLACE: Let’s start with Roy Moore and the presidents evolving position on the allegations towards the Choose. Right Here They’re.


SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE Home PRESS SECRETARY: The president stated in his remark past this week that if the allegations are authentic, then that Roy Moore Should step aside.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO THE PRESIDENT: The incontrovertible theory is that There Is Not Any Senate seat that’s value more than a toddler.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE US: I Will Be Able To tell you one thing evidently, we don’t want a liberal PARTICULAR PERSON in there, a Democrat.


WALLACE: What do you make of the president now siding with Moore As A Result Of, one, he says the Choose denies the allegations, and two, As A Result Of he says the Choose has an opponent who’s a liberal?

FIORINA: Smartly, That’s politics, is not it, Chris? This Is all about politics And That Is The Reason why when politicians speak about this, it does not have various credibility.

This has been going on in politics for an extraordinarily very long time. Democrats attempt to defend their very own. Republicans attempt to protect their own.

It Can Be just a little bit like George Washington warned us 200 years ago. The Problem with politics and political events is they care about successful certainly else. Donald Trump cares a few vote within the Senate, no more, no less.

WALLACE: And what you think Must happen to Moore? And what you suppose Should happen to the Democrats? As A Result Of as Mike Emanuel mentioned on this piece, we obtained to senior Democrats now, Senator Franken and Congressman Conyers, who Were additionally dealing with their very own allegations. What you assume Should occur to these Individuals?

FIORINA: Neatly, to begin with, this conduct goes on at all times. It has for a long time, sadly. In politics, within the place of job, in athletics, and After We politicize it — It’s Now Not my crew versus your crew, Republicans and Democrats alike are guilty of it.

I tell you probably the most useful factor can be for Congress to alter its OWN process and strategies. If someone needs to come back ahead and allege harassment or abuse in congress, they have to undergo a mandatory 30 days of counseling, mandatory mediation led by means of a lawyer whose specific objective is to protect the institution, and then perhaps if They Are fortunate they get a secret contract paid for via taxpayers from the Treasury.

That entire course of is designed to protect politicians, Democrats and Republicans alike, to offer protection to the establishment and to make it subsequent to unattainable for a lady, or in some cases a younger boy web page, to return forward. That ought to vary, that would if truth be told lend a hand.

WALLACE: What you think about these politicians? To think that There May Be an allegation in opposition to any individual — now, in some of these cases, Franken has stated them. At one of the others have denied them, together with Decide Moore and Congressman Conyers, do you think that Should Simply be it, they Must Simply — their profession Must be over?

FIORINA: You Realize, I Think in just about all of those cases, there was corroboration of the ladies tales. And just about Every circumstances, No Longer one lady who comes forward, It Can Be three, four, five, six.

And I Believe what’s most — I Feel what we all want to consider, But frankly particularly Men wish to take into consideration, and in just about all these instances, People knew. Folks knew this Was Once going on. That You Would Be Able To’t inform me that no one knew what Used To Be happening with Roy Moore and John Conyers or Al Franken or Charlie Rose or Roger Ailes or Howard Weinstein. People knew. Males knew and girls knew.

And so, while all of us express outrage now and other people say, Should they step down or Should they Not, I Feel the Question going ahead is, when are we going to forestall tolerating this habits and respecting the boys who do it? Because all of those Males have been revered, despite the fact that Folks knew.

WALLACE: Sure, I wish to pick up — I need to decide up on that since you made a remark this week that will shock Individuals. I wish to put it up on the reveal.

You said: It Is Going To best be a watershed second if Males make a decision to step forward.

You Were Not speaking about the Males who commit the harassment. You Have Been talking concerning the pals, the opposite Individuals in the Workplace. Why are they the key?

FIORINA: Well, you see, Ladies proceed to step ahead. Women continue to fight this. , we’re all shocked, as an instance, by using the scandal of the physician who Used To Be abusing young gymnasts. However 25 years in the past, there Used To Be a scandal a couple of educate abusing younger swimmers, and it all kind of disappeared and he went on to become famous.

In different words, you go through these waves, Because it’s long gone alongside a long time. Men, Now Not most, But Enough abuse their positions of Power in return for sex. And what happens is, Ladies step up But Men continue unfortunately into many cases to recognize the boys who Had Been behaving this fashion. Each single One Of The Men who has been uncovered in the remaining a few weeks Used To Be been respected.

And so, I Think Men want to make a decision, I’m No Longer going to respect a man who disrespects Girls. I’m going to withhold my recognize from him, until he respects others, as a way to a watershed second.

WALLACE: I wish to flip to your story, because you wrote a troubling essay this week, And I Must point out that We’ve Got a link to the essay on our web web page, You tell your story beginning nearly Forty years ago as a secretary working your MEANS up the company ladder.

Were you a sufferer of sexual harassment? What Used To Be your personal expertise?

FIORINA: Of Course I Used To Be. Every woman I Know Was. I Do Not Mean I’ve been raped or assaulted in probably the most ways these Women have.

However what Was I groped with the aid of a pal of my family? Of Course. Used To Be I propositioned? After All. Used To Be I offered as a bimbo? After All.

Did I Have from time to time Men banging on my resort room door and then lying about it the subsequent morning? After All.

That Is popular incidence sadly And That Is my level. My point will not be that the majority Males are dangerous, most Males are Good and respectful. And Plenty Of, many Men have helped many ladies, myself included.

And all Ladies are usually not victims. But The perennial abuse of Energy with the aid of Men over Girls has been with us for a very long time. And Everybody is aware of it. Girls comprehend it, and Males comprehend it.

WALLACE: As you’re working your APPROACH up the company ladder, you talked sooner than about Men using their Power to check out — in alternate for sex. Was Not one thing that Was finished with you Where Males Were in effect pronouncing you are able to do better, That You Would Be Able To transfer sooner professionally should you play ball?

FIORINA: Absolutely. I remember having an argument with one in all my bosses. I had an awfully attractive female colleague and he advised her that she Must do whatever Was Once essential to get the sale. She confessed this to me.

And That I went and confronted this boss. No Longer Every woman feels she can confront a person, But I Have most incessantly confronted Males.

And I stated, you can not give your subordinate this career advice. It Is unacceptable. He Used To Be greatly surprised. He Was stunned.

WALLACE: Well, I need to ask you about that, Because the general public recall to mind you, and as you current your self Here now and during the campaign, head of Hewlett-Packard, strong lady, care for yourself. But we’re talking about at an past stage whilst you Have Been a extra susceptible woman.

Did these — did these moments threaten you, shake you? I Imply, what Was Once the emotional impression on you?

FIORINA: Well, I Will let you know one story. I understand that sitting at a dinner with a set of co-workers. We Had Been speaking about a very huge contract, FTS2000, PROPER, Here in Washington, D.C. And all of my colleagues Have Been Males. That Used To Be often the case.

And I understand that one particular man saying to me, Neatly, You Understand, while you get to — they Have Been an examination of contractors — he mentioned, when it comes time for us to current our credentials, we higher hope you’re No Longer having your period, you gained’t be capable of current. Wow.

And That I remember that getting up and walking into the automobile parking space and crying in rage. I felt humiliated and embarrassed And I came back to the desk and did not say Every Other phrase for the remainder of the evening, However that evening I went dwelling and I Assumed, no person is ever going to make me feel like that again.

So, Yes, Ladies undergo all of those emotions and sadly many of the Girls who have come forward just lately failed to feel they Were in a position to confront because the Men had Power over them, the power of their occupation, the ability of their future. These Women, when you watch them come ahead, they obviously feel humiliated. They Are embarrassed, It’s Now Not simple.

Ladies were coming forward for decades. The Point of my publish Used To Be to assert It Is Men’s flip now.

WALLACE: We’ve had these moments before that seem —


WALLACE: — to clutch the nation’s attention, Folks discuss changing it. You recall to mind Anita Hill confronting Clarence Thomas right through his Supreme Court nomination, Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky, and people say, We’ve Got received to stop this. And as You Know, the outrage —

FIORINA: It would not cease.

WALLACE: — wears off. It doesn’t cease and the moment passes.


WALLACE: Is This going to be any completely different?

FIORINA: Smartly, that Was Once The Purpose of my put up. The Only MANNER it’s going to be totally different for my part is that if Males exchange their opinion about these kinds of Males. Ladies have recognized this is going on and deal with it. Males have recognized this is going on, and sadly too continuously appear the other way. Not all Men, However too many Males.

And I Think The Issue is that Males still can respect Males despite this conduct. When Men come to a decision, You Recognize what, I Will Be Able To’t admire this habits anymore. And Power in and of itself shouldn’t be what earns appreciate. What earns admire his behavior and management and decency and respect for others.

WALLACE: Eventually, I wish to ask you, I want to go back to President Trump Because you’ve gotten your individual moment with him right through the presidential marketing campaign when he stated this, appear — about you: Look At that face, would any person vote for that?

Here Is the way you spoke back in the next debate, And I additionally want to play what President Trump said this week concerning the harassers being uncovered. Right Here It’s.


FIORINA: I Believe Women in every single place this country heard very naturally what Mr. Trump said.


TRUMP: I Believe she’s got a ravishing face and I Believe she’s a lovely lady.

I Feel It Is very, superb for girls, And That I’m very happy various these items are popping out. I’m very happy — I’m more than happy It Is being uncovered.


WALLACE: Which one is the true Donald Trump?

FIORINA: Oh, You Understand, shall we eternally analyze Donald Trump. What I focal point on always is someone’s conduct, how do they behave? Are they leading or are they Not leading?

WALLACE: And President Trump?

FIORINA: Well, I Feel leaders understand that how you do issues is as vital as what you do. Leaders understand that they wish to build beef up. Leaders focal point on fixing issues. Leaders serve others.

WALLACE: And — you appear to be saying you don’t suppose this president meets that take a look at.

FIORINA: Neatly, I Don’t assume he has yet incessantly Sufficient. He is not going to be The Primary president to fail the test of management, and he will not be the ultimate, unfortunately.

Politics is just too hardly ever about management. Politics is simply too infrequently about Drawback-solving. Downside is simply too rarely about serving others.

Politics is to ceaselessly about my workforce versus your crew. It’s become like sports. And we all know how emotional and irrational sports activities is.

WALLACE: Carly, Thank You. Thanks for coming in on this holiday weekend. And It Is at all times Good to talk with you.

FIORINA: Thanks.

WALLACE: Up subsequent, we’ll usher in our Sunday team to talk about the power to unmask the harassers on Capitol Hill.

Plus, what would you like to ask the panel about what Should happen to Congressman Conyers and Senator Franken? Simply go to Facebook or Twitter, @FoxNewsSunday, and we may use your Question on the air.



DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.: He offers a complete denial, And That I do have to assert, Forty years is a long time. He’s run eight races, and this has never come up.


WALLACE: President Trump defending Alabama Senate candidate Judge Roy Moore towards allegations of sexual harassment after the president in the past mentioned Moore Must step apart if the allegations are true.

And It Is time now for our Sunday workforce. Former press secretary to vice president Pence, Marc Lotter, Marie Harf, a State Department legit within the Obama administration, Catherine Lucey, who covers the White House for The Related Press, and Guy Benson of

Neatly, Catherine, what can you tell us about the president’s change of place and resolution to ASPECT with Moore after at first saying that if the allegations Have Been authentic, he Must step down, now saying He’s denied it and along with his opponent is a liberal? Why did he exchange?

CATHERINE LUCEY, WHITE House REPORTER, THE Related PRESS: Neatly, There May Be a couple things Right Here, and as you heard from the earlier guest, politics performs a role. The president is all in favour of his agenda Will Have To Republicans lose the seat in Alabama And That Is The Reason definitely part of it.

He additionally does look like stressing the idea that these are previous allegations and, You Recognize, questioning whether or not They’re actual or Now Not. He Is truly suggesting that that could be a subject.

It’s additionally attention-grabbing, though, that We Have Now considered form of altering responses to the president and likewise the president and his daughter are saying two various things. Ivanka Trump came out with an extraordinarily sturdy commentary pronouncing that there’s a special place in hell for individuals who prey on children. However The president seems to be announcing that, You Realize, that he is ok with — he does Not advocate, But he seems happy with Moore.

WALLACE: This week, Leigh Corfman, who mentioned she Was 14 years previous when Roy Moore touched her inappropriately, she informed her story on television. This Is a clip.


LEIGH CORFMAN, ROY MOORE ACCUSER: He basically laid out some blankets on the floor of his living room and proceeded to seduce me.


WALLACE: Marc, you are nonetheless close to this White Home. As we mentioned, you are the former press secretary for vice president Pence, why do you suppose the president changed his thoughts and determined to SIDE with Moore? And what do you think are the probabilities that, You Understand, they bought December Twelfth, this unique election, that he’ll go down and in fact campaign with Judge Moore?

MARC LOTTER, FORMER VP PENCE PRESS SECRETARY: I’ve considered no data And That I in truth do not think he’ll go right down to Alabama, And That Is The Reason Not what I’m listening to from my former colleagues throughout the White Home still. However truly, what That Is going to return down to, the same thing that most elections do, when voters go into the polls in Alabama in a few weeks, they’re going to weigh these allegations.

They’re also going to try Doug Jones’ report and whether or not they are able to — whether they want any individual representing them in THE US Senate who Used To Be Pro-abortion, going to be an ally of Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and trying to block the president’s agenda. They’ll weigh Those competing pursuits and They Will cast their votes And They’ll make a decision.

WALLACE: But I Suppose my Query is, it gave the impression that they’d, the White House, an outstanding place, which is if It Is actual, he Will Have To step down and stay out of it, after which the president modified that and made up our minds to get into it, to the extent of claiming, we don’t need a liberal within the Senate, and these are decade previous allegations.

LOTTER: I Feel It Can Be Beautiful clear that Judge Moore is just not going to step down. He has stated that He Is No Longer going to finish — his title is going to be on the ballot whether or not this Was a week or two ago or now. So, at this level, It Can Be in the hands of the voters of Alabama.

And what I Believe you heard the president say Was, Used To Be that there are — while these are very disturbing allegations, But you even have to take a look at Doug Jones’ file. This cannot be — I Know the Democrats and one of the media Simply need to make this a referendum on Roy Moore. However you also have Some Other candidate in this race that you have to try his record as they go into the voting sales space.

WALLACE: Marie, let’s discuss about the better moment Right Here, As A Result Of it isn’t Simply Choose Roy Moore via any stretch of the imagination. As we mentioned, Democrats, Al Franken, John Conyers additionally stand accused. News man Charlie Rose’s 50 yr occupation blew up in lower than 24 hours.

What Is Going On on Here in relation to this wave of allegations of harassment, And The Way Far, how sweeping do you suppose It’ll be?

MARIE HARF, FORMER STATE Department SPOKESPERSON: Smartly, I Think That Is more than likely only the start, especially Here in Washington. We discuss lots about Congress. This Is clearly a subject matter that spans industries from media to politics to sports activities to comedy. It Is No Longer Democratic. It Is Now Not Republican.

I Believe That Is just the beginning of a cultural moment The Place Women feel relaxed speaking out. There May Be safety in numbers Here. However The Query, and Carly Fiorina introduced this up, I Believe It’s a truly necessary Query, what’s the long run exchange in behavior Right Here? And How do we as a culture Look At the different allegations, they’re Not The Entire similar. They’re all completely different in their own methods, how do Now We Have requirements for what the correct response Should be?

Will Have To all of them must resign? We’d most certainly all say, no, But The Place’s the road? These are considerations that we as a tradition are going to be coping with for months to come, And I truly do not need this political tribalism to get in the way of that dialog, Because it really does pass I Feel all partisan boundaries.

WALLACE: Neatly, let me choose up on this with you, As A Result Of as I talked about with Carly, we’ve had these moments ahead of. I Mean, folks who weren’t paying attention again then and Had Been too young when Anita Hill challenged Clarence Thomas in that hearing within the early ’90s when he Used To Be — had been nominated for the Supreme Court Docket, it Was Just stopped Each dinner, Each birthday party and other people Had Been taking facets.

And everyone idea, Well, This Is it, This Is the tipping level. It wasn’t, obviously. We’re 25 years later, it nonetheless goes on.

Why do We Predict this shall be any totally different, that the outrage will not be there after which It’s Going To dissipate?

HARF: I Believe we hope It’s Going To be totally different As A Result Of in a part of the breadth of the accusations, , Males across the political spectrum, throughout completely different industries. However there are quite a few Ladies today, even Republicans who say sitting within the Oval Place Of Work is a person who Used To Be accused by means of over a dozen Women of sexual harassment or assault.

So, certainly — I Believe for a lot of girls, this second feels empowering. However for lots of us, it also feels like The Problem is greater than we notion, The Fact That it crosses so various genres. We Have Now hoped that things will trade, But we don’t have any guarantee of that. And That Is very irritating to quite a few us.

WALLACE: We requested you for questions for the panel, and a variety of folks are upset to find out something I Have to assert I didn’t Be Aware Of, which is that members of Congress can settle instances with individuals of their workforce, on sex harassment, in secret and at taxpayer’s price.

And we acquired one thing on that from Donald Cooley, who tweeted this. Must their names, the members of Congress who have settled intercourse harassment cases, Will Have To their names be launched? Should they pay back the money instantly? And Must they be suspended, pushed aside like company The Us?

Guy, how do you solution him?

Man BENSON, TOWNHALL.COM: I Feel when Folks discuss during this heat, It’s exhausting to think about one thing extra swamp like than this, Where our elected representatives can abuse their Power, abuse subordinates and then secretly use a slush fund of our cash to pay them off without any of the main points ever being launched. The Fact That that’s the current establishment is jaw-losing I Feel to most taxpayers, and It Is totally unacceptable. On its face, that cannot continue.

WALLACE: Do you assume — You Already Know, once more, I Assume having been in Washington a long time, I’m always skeptical. Yes, they’re going to take a vote this week and necessary intercourse harassment coaching for individuals and their staffers.

Do you suppose It Will go further? Do you suppose that Congress will truly clean up its act? Which Is Now Not a rhetorical Question.

BENSON: No, As A Result Of It’s a self-Protection racket. That’s the entire point of this. Each events Know that there are Individuals in their ranks being shielded by using the status quo. And it’s a numbers sport, It’s all about politics. So, they are not essentially concerned about this.

So, The One MANNER that It Will occur is if the American people are angry Sufficient in a sustained way to guarantee that a Bill involves the floor and is voted on and is passed, and people who vote towards it are shamed, As A Result Of there aren’t Excellent reasons to vote no, I’d view, at least on the transparency-minded Invoice.

WALLACE: All PROPER. We’ve to take a RUIN Right Here. We’ll see you, panel, just a little bit later.

After We come again, the push to get tax reform finished with the aid of the tip of the year. Senator John Thune joins us to speak about that and the trouble to steer clear of a government shutdown.


WALLACE: Arising, Senate Republicans soak up tax reform.


SEN. JOHN THUNE, R-SOUTH DAKOTA: We Think that it helps to deliver significant help to nearly all of Americans, primarily These in the heart class, middle earnings categories who desperately want a tax minimize.


WALLACE: We’ll ask GOP Senator John Thune about prospects for passing it, next on “Fox Information Sunday.”


WALLACE: President Trump has promised the American Folks an enormous, gorgeous Christmas present in the form of major tax cuts. Can the GOP deliver or will the Bill get stuck in the chimney?

Joining us from South Dakota to talk about that and way more, the quantity three Republican within the Senate, John Thune.

Senator, you said not too long ago you notion that President Trump might be influential, your word, in getting Roy Moore to step down. However, as We Have discussed these days, the president is now siding with Judge Moore.

And, if truth be told, I need to put up a tweet that the president sent this morning. The Last Thing we want in Alabama, and the U.S. Senate, is a Schumer-Pelosi puppet who is susceptible on crime, susceptible on the border, dangerous for our militia and her Nice vets, unhealthy for our 2nd Amendment, and wants to raise taxes to the sky. Doug Jones, the Democratic candidate Doug Jones can be a disaster.

Senator, does that disappoint you The Place the president is now?

SEN. JOHN THUNE, R-S.D., REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE CHAIRMAN: Smartly, I would like to see the president, Chris, come out and fortify what many people have mentioned, And That Is that Roy Moore it needs to step apart, permit anyone else to be a write-in candidate. We Can win that seat.

He’s PROPER. If a Democrat wins, it is going to be a vote for the Pelosi-Schumer agenda, which goes to be in opposition to tax reform, against constitutional judges, towards Sensible borders.

However The other alternative is that if Roy Moore wins and he comes into the Senate in January, There’s going to instantly be an ethics investigation, which goes to be a cloud that he’ll be operating in, and it’ll be a distraction for us and for our agenda.

So, You Already Know, Indirectly the choice’s as much as the Individuals of Alabama, But It Surely strikes me at least that It Would be on their easiest hobby and in the country’s best hobby, and indisputably one of the best interest of our agenda, if the president would use his affect to take a look at to get Roy Moore to step aside.

WALLACE: So do you assume the president has made a mistake in splitting with Senate leaders, like your self and Senator McConnell, and going with Judge Moore?

THUNE: Neatly, I Will’t — , the president obviously can speak for himself, However — and I Believe he sees the specter of a Democrat preserving that seat and what that might Imply for his agenda. But The alternative, as I stated, isn’t Excellent both, Chris.

And so, So Far As I Am involved, the president, to the level that he needs to make use of his influence on this race, could, I Believe, assist everybody out by way of doing what he can to try and get Roy Moore to step apart, which is what we believe is in one of the best pastime, once more, indisputably of the usa, undoubtedly the president’s agenda, and I Would argue for the Individuals of Alabama, even though I — like I stated, Which Is a choice that they — they make They Usually do not care a lot what Washington, D.C., thinks.

WALLACE: Let’s speak concerning the large — or a few large issues which can be — you are going to face on the Senate flooring within the subsequent week or two. The Primary is tax reform that Will Have To get to the whole Senate flooring this week.

However It’s in some bother. There Is one Republican senator, Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, who has already mentioned that He’s a “no” vote, and as a minimum five others are on the fence. Is tax reform in actual jeopardy within the Senate?

THUNE: I consider It Is Going To cross, Chris. I Think that in any case — We Have participants who’re expressing what are authentic issues, who’re — have concepts about tips on how to make the Bill superior and higher. And we’re without a doubt open to Those. And we will have an open process on the floor of THE U.S. Senate Where People can offer amendments. Those amendments can get debated and voted upon. So It’s Going To be a — a whole lot of opportunities to change the Bill within the course that a few of our — our senators wish to see.

However, On The Other Hand, we wish to get this accomplishment. It Is A intention that We’ve Got had for a long time. The tax code in this us of a must be modified if we will be aggressive within the global market. Our businesses are not competitive today. If we need to get the economic system growing at a sooner rate, creating better paying jobs, raising wages on this country, we wish to get this tax Invoice across the end line.

And it additionally — our important goal in That Is to deliver tax aid to middle profits families. And the Bill that we said out of the Senate Finance Committee final week and in an effort to be on the floor this week does that.

And so these are all things that our contributors are for. I Think in any case We Are Going To get the votes. However It’s a process and — a legislative course of. It takes time to maneuver it throughout the end line. However I Think We Are Going To get a Invoice to the president.

WALLACE: I need to discuss One Of The Most considerations that have — a number of of These senators that we Just confirmed of the half of-dozen senators, are considering, And That Is that the legitimate estimate is that the Senate tax Bill, because it now stands, will add $1.4 trillion to the debt over the next decade. It Will be even more, But as a Budget gimmick, some non-public tax cuts expire in 2025.

You Might Have made it clear, you wish to have to see Those cuts made permanent. But If They Are, that suggests the debt will go up much more, greater than $2 trillion ticket for these tax cuts.

As a fiscal conservative, senator, are you ok with that, a tax reduce that adds $2 trillion to the National debt?

THUNE: Smartly, appear, Chris, the item that you need to needless to say about this, and our contributors all Recognize this. The Entire senators voted for the Price Range that allowed us to maneuver this tax Bill throughout the Senate Finance Committee. And we believe that with a reasonable amount, a small, modest quantity of commercial boom, that quantity gets completely worn out. All it’s a must to do is get four-tenths of 1 p.c of additional GDP. And, understand that, , the Congressional Funds Administrative Center, the legitimate scorekeeper, says that we’re best going to grow the economic system at about 1.8 to 1.9 p.c for the path — over the path of the following ten years.

We Predict We Will do much better than that. That Must Not be the established order. We Will Have To Not accept 2 percent boom in this economic system.

Good tax policy We Think can unleash this economic system, generate much higher financial growth in keeping with historic requirements which have been the three to three.5 percent range. But even supposing we get up to 2.2 or 2.3, we duvet the price of this Invoice.

So our senators, as they Have A Look At this, are going to be announcing, OK, what does this because of boom in the economy? Is That This a pro-boom tax Invoice? Will these policies generate sooner growth and higher paying jobs and more government earnings? And, after all, we imagine that It Will.

WALLACE: Probably The Most other issues that Congress has to do is, you have to fund the federal government, which runs out of cash on December 8th. Will you steer clear of a shutdown? And ahead of December Eighth, are you going to pass a long-term spending Bill that keeps the federal government solvent All Of The approach to the end of the fiscal yr next September? Or do you assume you’re going to end up Simply passing one or two week extension to kick the can down the highway again?

THUNE: Well, we wish to pass a long-time period spending Bill, clearly. And the legislative process, the negotiator with a view to go on between the White House and Democrats in Congress and our leadership in Congress, now and again you need to do a short-time period extension. However, Not Directly, we need to do a Bill that cash the federal government in the course of the FINISH of the subsequent fiscal 12 months and that addresses the important priorities that we need to handle.

We’ve Got got some catastrophe assistance for some of these areas of the united states which were affected by the weather this final 12 months, the hurricanes, and in addition any other things that want to be achieved in the 12 months FINISH Invoice. But we don’t have a — there just isn’t any discussion about shutting down the federal government. We Can make this thing work. We Simply want to get Folks at the table, negotiate it. I Believe the president’s bringing the leadership in the house and the Senate to his Place Of Job later this week to do that.

WALLACE: Neatly, let’s speak about one key difficulty, for the reason that Democrats are saying, if you wish to have — and you want their votes. You Can’t do that via a Budget reconciliation with Simply Fifty One votes, so you’re going to want the Democrats onboard. They Usually’re saying the associated fee is that you’ve got to have a DACA restoration. That it’s a must to give you the chance to protect the so-referred to as dreamers as a part of this spending compromise. Is that something that Republicans, like yourself, are prepared to accept?

THUNE: I Do Not — I Don’t suppose that ought to be in this Bill. This Invoice ought to be about funding the federal government. DACA is a giant problem. Immigration is a huge problem. There Is quite a lot of sympathy for aiding Those, You Know, young women and men who Have Been on this united states of america through no fault of their own, who’re Here illegally via no fault of their own, on the similar time doing one thing about border Safety. We Predict Those concerns want to be coupled.

However That Is a huge difficulty. That May Be A consequential, legislative difficulty that must be dealt with, However It just isn’t dealt within within the context of a yr-END spending Bill and the Democrats using it — attempting to use leverage to — as a — , to close down the federal government.

Which Is No Longer how this ought to be resolved. Let’s do the spending difficulty. We’ll negotiate that with the Democrats. The DACA problem and border Safety wish to be negotiated one after the other, with a bit of luck someday next year.

WALLACE: All RIGHT. I need to deal Ultimately with an best in Washington situation is that we now have an company Right Here within the nation’s capital with two dueling directors. And people won’t had been following this over the vacation weekend.

the shopper Monetary Safety Bureau Was Once created as a part of Dodd-Frank to oversee firms that lend to shoppers, However Republicans have antagonistic it from the start. The director quit on Friday and named his chief of staff, This Can Be A Democratic director, holdover from the Obama administration, Leandra English, to be the acting director. But The president named Price Range Chief Mick Mulvaney to run CFPB.

Query, when the agency returns to work the next day to come, who’s in cost?

THUNE: I Think Mick Mulvaney might be in cost. And I Feel very so much it sounds like now the Justice Division has come out in give a boost to of the president’s place on this. Ultimately this may end up in Courtroom. But The CFPB Was created as an agency, Chris, in the first place that had little or no accountability, very little transparency, truly no oversight to Congress, and It Can Be an agency that needs to be reformed. So I are expecting that Mick Mulvaney shall be on the job and he’ll be calling the photographs over there.

WALLACE: However, You Already Know, There May Be, as you Neatly Comprehend, there are competing passion Here Because, Yes, You’re RIGHT, the Justice Department says the president has the correct to place Mulvaney in the job. Alternatively, underneath Dodd-Frank, the best way the law is written is the deputy director, on the subject of the vacancy, turns into an appearing director until the president nominates anyone who’s confirmed by means of the Senate.

Is That This one thing that you just assume that Congress will have to become involved with to take a look at to kind out? As A Result Of if we’re speaking about a Court case, this could take a long time.

THUNE: Well, it could possibly. And the very best factor Congress can do is the president make a everlasting nomination and We’ll process it as quick as We Are Able To in the Senate and get anyone put in as soon as that you can think of. That In Some Way is the easiest way to resolve this.

However in the intervening time, the president has made this appointment. I Suspect maybe that it gets litigated, that it ends up in Court. But I Think, for the foreseeable future as a minimum, my expectation is that Mick Mulvaney will probably be in that job. But I Hope, in spite of everything, it results in — in the reform to that company, which has primarily very little accountability to the Congress or anyone else.

WALLACE: Senator Thune, Thanks. Thanks to your time. And We Are Going To be following All Of The action in the Senate this week.

Thank You, sir.

THUNE: Thanks, Chris. Great to be with you.

WALLACE: Up subsequent, We’ll convey back our Sunday panel to weigh in on Robert Mueller’s investigation as former Nationwide Safety Advisor Mike Flynn cuts ties with the president’s lawyers. Does that Imply Flynn is now cooperating with the special INFORMATION?



TRUMP: This man has served for many years. He’s a General. He Is a — in my opinion, an excellent PERSON.


WALLACE: President Trump praising his former Nationwide Safety Marketing Consultant, Common Michael Flynn, despite the fact that he fired Flynn after Just 24 days on the job.

And we’re again now with the panel.

Smartly, Marc, the president’s legal professionals say They May Be No Longer involved about Flynn it seems that dealing with the unique GUIDANCE As A Result Of they say he has no data, no proof that will incriminate the president. Are your former colleagues in the White House in point of fact that assured?

MARC LOTTER, FORMER VP PENCE PRESS SECRETARY: I Think They Are. I Imply what we’re having a look at now is most likely, consistent with what the president’s attorney says, Any Other instance like with Manafort and Gates Where any more or less special INFORMATION motion may well be related to outside trade dealings that might be separate from the marketing campaign and No Longer essentially tied to anything that Was Once right away involved with the marketing campaign.

WALLACE: However what in regards to the possibility that these guys are in bother, Flynn and Manafort, I Imply they face federal indictments And So They flip?

LOTTER: Smartly, there must be information to flip on. And As The president has said on more than one events, and There Is nonetheless been no credible evidence exhibiting any roughly collusion with the Russians and the Trump campaign. So these are most probably Just concerns in the case of Common Flynn and his out of doors trade dealings and in some way associated to the campaign.

WALLACE: Catherine, from your very totally different vantage point in the White Home press room, what’s your feel of the White Home? Are they really that unconcerned concerning the developments this week involving Normal Flynn?

CATHERINE LUCEY, Related PRESS: Neatly, from one of the most other people within that I’ve talked to, I’ve heard a few of what Marc is announcing, that folks feel like this is not elevating anxiousness ranges, that there is a sense that Flynn has to make a — make — make his OWN selections, that it doesn’t essentially blow back on the president.

However There Is additionally a fact that this White Home Is dealing with the cloud of an investigation. That It’s been there, You Know, for months. There Is No sense that It Is ending each time quickly. And It’s No Longer clear, You Know, if and when Another shoe drops and whether Flynn performs a part in that.

WALLACE: Guy, your thoughts about the trends this week?

Man BENSON, FOX Information CORRESPONDENT: Well, I Believe The Purpose is, The Only reason there can be blood drive rising or indigestion at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue as in the event that they Comprehend Flynn has something to give Mueller. If This Is Flynn trying to shop himself or his son or from sure expenses, The One WAY that this turns into an actual political Problem for the president is if He’s bought the goods on someone very high up within the administration. If he does not, then I Do Not think this turns into — this doesn’t metastasize As Far As it would. If he — if he does have that stuff, then, clearly, It’s, , It’s a 4 alarm fire.

WALLACE: I need to turn to North Korea As A Result Of we noticed a outstanding video this week that displays Simply how brutal the Kim regime is. Let’s put it up.

A North Korean soldier tries to escape by Jeep over the border into South Korea. As you’ll see, his car will get caught, and he starts running. Which Is him starting to run. And North Korean infantrymen fire dozens of pictures at him.

He Used To Be hit it sounds as if five times. This Is infrared video that presentations a South Korean soldier grabbing him and pulling him to security faraway from the DMZ. That soldier now convalescing. All of this as President Trump put North Korea again on the list of state sponsors of terrorism. But Secretary of State Tillerson admitted that there are questions as to how a lot so one can in truth accomplish. Right Here He Is.


REX TILLERSON, SECRETARY OF STATE: The Sensible effects may be restricted, However we hope that we’re closing off just a few loopholes with this.


WALLACE: Marie, your reaction to the video and your response to what the president did this week in putting North Korea back on the state sponsor of terrorism?

MARIE HARF, FOX News CONTRIBUTOR: Smartly, I Think the video is a reminder of the length persons are going to, to escape North Korea and the brutality of this regime. We All Know that. However seeing it on video, I Believe, is beautiful for all people in observing this video.

Secretary Tillerson is correct, the state sponsor of terrorism designation is usually, at this point, symbolic As A Result Of We’ve so many sanctions on North Korea already. What I Am truly in search of are tangible results coming out of the president’s lengthy go back and forth to Asia that he went on recently. North Korea Was at the top of the agenda with China, with Japan, with South Korea. Those conversations might bear extra fruit than simply this designation that almost definitely is not going to do anything in observe.

We’ve Not seen rather a lot popping out from that trip yet on the subject of more pressure on North Korea. We may, However We Haven’t yet. China nonetheless holds a few of the cards and Russia has stepped up. Where China has pulled back, Russia has stepped up to lend a hand North Koreans. And I’m Hoping the administration can also be raising this problem with Moscow too.

WALLACE: I want to ask you a Question that President Trump asked, which is, why failed to President Obama, why failed to the State Division that you simply worked for, despite the fact that it Used To Be most effective symbolic, put North Korea again on the listing of state sponsors of terrorism years ago?

HARF: Smartly, we had a lot of methods to put drive on North Korea, with sanctions, Each our sanctions and U.N. sanctions. We acquired extremely tricky U.N. sanctions passed on North Korea.

The state sponsor of terrorism list really does not do us whole lot. It Is Going To send a sign that You’re looking to be tough, However except you back that up with sanctions, which We’ve Not in fact seen various for the reason that designation this week, We Have Not seen them use it to do anything else extra, they only discuss it, then in point of fact the proof is in the pudding.

So this designation shouldn’t be going to essentially or in any respect alternate North Korea’s calculation almost certainly. We Must focus on action, No Longer on hanging Individuals on lists. And I want to see more motion from his administration and some other countries, like China.

WALLACE: Do you adore being lectured through the Obama administration on taking motion on North Korea?

HARF: No, We Do Not lecture each other.

LOTTER: We Don’t lecture each and every different. But, I Imply, This Can Be A — This Can Be A crucial step. It Is hard for THE UNITED STATES executive to ask its allies to do more When We do not take a very simple step of placing them back on the phobia checklist.

And We Now Have viewed concrete examples. There Was Once a RECORD this week that in October, China did not import any coal or key minerals from North Korea and exported zero diesel and gas to North Korea. So we’re seeing our partners step up.

This Is A quite simple step. The president mentioned he Was going to name our enemies and go after them. And so what You Might Be seeing is the president announcing that the generation of apology tours and hugging our enemies is over.


HARF: I didn’t hug any enemies. I don’t know what You Are speaking about.

No, seem to be, I Feel the rhetoric is okay. The Query is, will it have any sensible influence? And all of this stuff We’ve seen from the administration from different nations in view that President Trump took Place Of Business, North Korea hasn’t changed its habits. So what will At Last get it to? Is it China cracking down? Is it different nations? There’s No magic resolution, PROPER? However The basic reality is, North Korea hasn’t modified yet, and we want them to.

WALLACE: Let me ask a unique side of this, Man, and that is the indisputable fact that the Kim regime has Not tested a missile — We’ve Not in reality observed it As A Result Of We Don’t notice silence — due to the fact September. Why poke the undergo presently?

BENSON: Smartly, I Believe the Trump administration is attempting to delineate their method versus — or from what the Obama administration pursued with the strategic sufferers.

I Would additionally level out that the Bush administration, George W. Bush administration, took North Korea off this checklist in 2008 as a carrot in negotiations over denuclearization.

HARF: Sure.

BENSON: That has Not gone Well. Why keep that concession on the desk? Take it back. They have not earned it. They Don’t deserve it. It’s the appropriate transfer to re-impose this As A Result Of their behavior has Now Not licensed all of it, It’s gotten worse.

WALLACE: Fifteen seconds, Catherine.

LUCEY: I Think also the president really needed to point out sort of momentum coming off of his go back and forth. So even if This Is something of a symbolic gesture, he in reality wants to show that he is persevering with to do issues as he comes out of this prolonged Asia tour.

WALLACE: Thank You, panel. See you next Sunday.

Up next, our “Energy Participant of the Week.” Once again, I dance with the turkeys.


WALLACE: This Is a holiday riddle we ask Each Thanksgiving. Who founded a huge tech company, created a successful beauty business, and now raises turkeys just like the Native American Citizens did? As Soon As again, This Is our “Power Player of the Week.”


SANDY LERNER, AYRSHIRE FARM: Farm with the land. Farm with the seasons. Recognize your soil. Know your rainfall. Recognize your — Recognize your climate. Recognize your animals.

WALLACE (voice-over): Sandy Lerner is speaking about sustainable farming, elevating farm animals and growing vegetables without the chemical compounds that are so widespread in what she calls manufacturing facility farming.

Just days sooner than Thanksgiving, she took me out to look — and, Yes, to bop — together with her 1,300 turkeys. Heritage breeds that hint back to the Indians.

LERNER: Come on, carry your arms. Gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble. Gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble.

WALLACE: Lerner is mistress of Ayrshire Farm, 800 acres in Upperville Virginia. However as interesting as her trade is how she bought her.

She grew up on a farm in California making Sufficient from raising cattle to ship herself to university.

LERNER: What I discovered Used To Be to love work. I’m in reality happiest when I’m engaged and working and pondering and striving.

WALLACE: She acquired into computer systems. In 1984, she and her then-husband began Cisco Techniques, that discovered a technique to hyperlink networks of computers, the foundation of the Internet. However six years later, mission capital Individuals Have Been operating Cisco.

WALLACE (on camera): How do you get fired from an organization that you simply started?

LERNER: We Just principally bought taken to the cleaners. And part of that Was Once, if you would not have an employment contract. I bought fired with the aid of the same Guy who fired Steve Jobs.

WALLACE (voice-over): Lerner had a Second act. She began a cosmetics firm called Urban Decay, with eddy colors for ladies like her. And in 1996, she offered Ayrshire Farm.

LERNER: It Can Be traditionally been people who had disposable income will make strides in farming. Take A Look At George Washington or Take A Look At Thomas Jefferson.

You Are this type of Beautiful lady. Pretty is as Lovely does.

WALLACE: She raises Shires, struggle horses that go back centuries, Scotch Island cattle and people turkeys, which she says style better on account of the lives they lead.

WALLACE (on digital camera): How so much is an Ayrshire turkey price as compared to what I get in a grocery store?

LERNER: Well, our turkeys are pricey. They Are between — I Think They’re operating this yr about $160-$200.

WALLACE (voice-over): At Those prices, there are questions about learn how to make this type of farming successful. But whereas Lerner is set to run a sound trade, It Is No Longer as regards to the bottom line. There May Be a Forty room mansion on the farm.

WALLACE (on camera): What’s it like residing there?

LERNER: I do not know.

WALLACE: What do you Mean?

LERNER: I live within the log cabin And I love it.

WALLACE: Do you suppose You’re a little eccentric?

LERNER: I Am now that I’m wealthy. I used to only be weird.

WALLACE: And so Simply days prior to Thanksgiving, Sandy Lerner And I danced with the turkeys. She grew up on a household farm and she or he wants to peer Those values live to tell the tale.

LERNER: I’m a cowgirl. I Will Be Able To tell what cows are considering. It Is very a lot my success as a farmer, which is what George Washington Was Once. He wished to be a in point of fact Excellent farmer. And I Feel I’ve transform a Good farmer.


WALLACE: Sandy Lerner has bought greater than 800 turkeys this Thanksgiving and she or he donated greater than 300 to native charities. Plus, she gave 1,000 chickens to Folks hit via Typhoon Harvey.

And That’s it for as of late. Have a super week. And We Are Going To see you next “Fox Information Sunday.”


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